About grumbling...

"The problem with our complaining is that it reveals a dissatisfaction to others and really speaks of a lack of faith on our part in trusting God with our circumstances. Our grumbling is really against our Father." -another student at my seminary

My response:

Well said. To add to your thought: I think a lot of people either go into grumble mode or, as equally out-of-balance, don't-say-anything-bad-ever/doormat mode and can live like a pendulum going back and forth. The better choice is to process through things in a healthy manner with the Lord and/or others, be able to make a reasonable appeal, and confront others when needed. I think grumbling and being a doormat are far from what the Lord intended for His royal children (I'm reading The Supernatural Ways of Royalty right now. Can you tell?). Thanksgiving and intercession while in the problem are also always excellent alternatives to grumbling.

For your entertainment, feel free to check out Bethel Church:

http://www.ibethel.tv/media/free/all/1/popular

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In regards to the Rules of the Christian walk:
I think as people start to really get a taste for His presence and seeing His Spirit move, they will hopefully fall in love with God. At that point the relationship is not about rules but rather about maintaining open fellowship with Him. If this is what one craves above all else, than the rules become only the parameters in order to keep open communication. The desire to walk in obedience will ultimately come as one realizes that to break the rules only often causes an internal death to His spiritual fire operating internally and, quite often, external consequences that only rip down what we ultimately want (as what we ultimately want becomes what He ultimately wants... which really is what we always ultimately wanted if we had only known... not to make this too confusing). Consequently, rules become something we desperately desire to keep, but are radically dependent on Him and His mercy to do so.

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I just got to hear Randy Clark talk about the gifts at the Healing School here in Redding. Randy's comment that the word gifts, Charisma, has the root word that is translated grace. He argues that God's grace is what gives gifts. While some receive them through eagerly desiring the gifts (which is only God's grace that woos them), others receive them strictly on His grace. Therefore, one should not be surprised when some of the most unlikely vessels walk in some intense power! If they were works based, they would not be called Charisma!

A few seminary posts:

I think there is information to be learned in how Jesus revealed Himself. Since God did come and show Himself - through Jesus - we should see how He showed Himself.

I think there is a part of God that wants people to want Him. He wants to see if we really want Him or only when it is easy to have relationship with Him. Since God valued sacrifice over and over throughout the Bible (chiefly in the death of Jesus), He wants to know if we want Him only when He is easily revealed or if we love Him enough that we are willing to sacrifice anything in order to have more of Him and His presence. In Luke 24:28 and Mark 6:48, it appears that Jesus has no problem taking some initiative with His followers, but eagerly desires them to pursue Him. In James 4 we see that we are to draw near to God and He will draw near to us. I think God reveals more and more of Himself as we fall more and more in love with Him. Brian Johnson has a lyric in his song We Believe that says, "You reveal your secrets and all of your mysteries to those who have fallen completely in love with you." I am firmly convinced that God is looking for those who will decide that He is worth whatever sacrifice to be made to truly know (in my mind, this should be an easy choice to make as there is nothing in this world that satisfies for longer than a minute or two, and living a narcissistic life for pleasure is extremely empty and eventually depressing). I think the apostle Paul was definitely one of those with the remarks made in Phil. 3 about considering everything a loss in comparison to knowing Christ. So God will show more and more as He is invited and pursued (both individually and corporately). To try to uncover all of God without seeking to know Him is to almost treat Him as a prostitute: only to use Him for one's own benefits. The reality is that God's eyes are looking to and fro throughout the earth looking for someone who has truly fallen in love with Him and wants to live out His desires - rather than seek Him to bless what they want done. While these things might be the same, the approach is radically different. In the former, one lives in peace and joy with the Lord as they see Him fight the battles for them (sure, it might be on His timetable and not ours but He still provides the ability to remain content with the unresolved issues of life). The latter leaves one wondering why God is holding out on them and is more like manipulation. I think the end of 1 Corinthians 2 shows how the way to understand God is through the Spirit. Those who spend very little time filled with the Spirit will probably spend life asking a lot more questions than uncovering answers that come through His revelation and revealing of Himself. This is not to say anyone ever gets all of their answers solved. Bill Johnson has said something along the lines of, "Any God I could absolutely understand is probably not one that I want to serve."

So, to summarize, I think, in general (this is not a debate about unreached people groups), the Lord shows enough to invite in relationship and waits to see who are hungry.

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One issue that I hear mentioned in this thread is in regards to how we respond when we blow it. I think there are two sides that are out of balance.

I think we can look at numerous people in the Bible who did not care at all about the sin in their life. They continued to live in ways that were contrary to what God had and could care less. The consequences of this spiritual apathy cost many of them very dearly. Many of the OT kings would be example of what I am referring to.

However, equally out of balance is living in guilt and/or shame. Martin Luther is a perfect example of a man who spent a lot of time with a guilty conscious. It is very easy for a Christian to live in a cesspool of guilt, think that this is the way that they are called to holiness and essentially be taken out of being used by God because of a never ending internal witch hunt. I remember talking to a guy who thought that guilt and shame were good for him. I asked him if they ever caused much change in his life for the positive. It did not appear that there was much internal change as a result of what he thought was good for him except picking a few external bad pieces of fruit. There was no internal heart change that came from guilt and shame. Perhaps the only reason why he thought they were good is because they temporarily pulled him out of spiritual apathy. However, guilt and condemnation are out of balance and unable to free people just as much as spiritual apathy is.

I think the biblical response is neither of these two. While different issues require different responses, I think things that have greatly helped me are:
1) Take sin seriously. Repent seriously, not flippantly. Then line up with truth. 1 John 1:9 says that he has now cleansed me from ALL unrighteousness. Therefore, line up with truth and do not claim that Jesus' work was not enough by trying to punish myself. But, at the same time, do absolutely, positively whatever it takes to have change. There is no cost that is not worth paying for freedom.
2) Find someone who is walking in victory in what I want to walk in victory in. Learn from them. Discover how they got to where they did. Do not assume that because I have not experienced victory on my own with God or in talking to people that similarly struggled that this is simply "my cross to bear" or "my thorn in the flesh." I have seen some say that some things are impossible that I see others that are walking in victory over.
3) Trace back mindsets. What were my mindsets (lies I was believing) that prompted the negative fruit. Change the mindsets to truth.
4) Approach the Christian life holistically. The Spirit empowers us for everything, not just a few things. Therefore, all of life must be changed, not just the sin issues I do not like.
5) Realize that we are not internal producers of righteousness. In other words, our striving does not produce much of any kind of breakthrough. It is through relationship and changing what I believe that causes breakthrough.

Those are just a few things that come to mind, and obviously not even close to comprehensive. However, I only wanted to note the difference between guilt vs. spiritual apathy as near as I understand.

God's Will

While I completely agree with the idea of the sovereignty of God, I sometimes get concerned with how I hear some present it. Some present it such that everything that happens in this world is God's will - I think much occurs that God is not in favor of. For example, even though it is God's will is that no one should perish (2 Peter 3:9), it does not mean that no one will perish.

However, I think my biggest concern in regards to those in the Calvinist camp is that one fails to see how my interactions influence God's will. For example, if I walk in pride, God's will is that I am opposed by Him. If I walk in humility, God's will is to give me grace. This is clear from both 1 Peter 5:5 and James 4:6. As a result, I know I have seen God respond differently about things I have prayed for in different circumstances based on whether I was walking in pride. If I were to simply have prayed while walking in pride, not seen a breakthrough, and attributed the results that God did not want to do what I prayed for, I would have mistaken God's will to being much more of an external manifestation instead of internal. A clear biblical example of this would be the Israelites going to the promised land. It should be clear that God's will for them was to go to the promised land. However, due to their grumbling and other issues, God's will was that they walk around the Sinai peninsula for many years. If the people simply thought that "God's will is for me to walk around the Sinai" without ever bothering to consider WHY God's will was for them to walk around Sinai, might have caused a radical change in what was occurring in their lives. So while I completely believe in the Sovereignty of God, I am horrified as to how I hear many people present it.

This might be repetitive from an earlier post...

Grace

I wrote this in regards to someone saying that they were wrestling with condemnation as a result of not feeling like they had done what they felt God had told them to.

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I can certainly relate to you in regards to feeling the temptation to beat myself up or to not think God will want to bless me with more opportunities because I did not take advantage of the last ones. However, I think all of this is rooted in condemnation. I think it was only in the last few months that I started to see how big of a deal grace is. Grace is what gives the opportunities to do the things that will stretch and grow me. It had nothing to do with me doing everything right. At best all I can do is indirectly keep them from happening due to how I live. And grace will continue to give opportunities (if I believe that it will), even if I mess up the ones given in the past. While I seem to like to only believe for good things when I do everything right in the previous opportunities given, the reality is that the opportunities are a result of grace, not my strivings, spirituality, or whatever. While this may cause grace to be abused, I am starting to believe that grace in and of itself is wonderfully, incredibly ridiculous. Who would kill their perfect Son to give people who will not truly value what has been given everything? I am not deserving of it. But that's why it is grace, it is the opposite of effort. And when I line up on the side of grace in how I approach things is when I line up where Jesus died so that I could be positioned.

In case anyone wants to take my note in a way I did not intend it to be taken: Please do not think I am cheapening grace as a license to do whatever one wants. However, grace needs to be viewed as what sets one free from wrong mindsets and so forth - not a license to live in a way that is contrary to God's Word.

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And I wrote this in regards to someone asking how to defend their faith to an appologetics question about God being nothing more than one who tries to control and manipulate people in to getting them to do what He wants them to.
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God does the exact opposite of controlling and manipulating. Clearly, whoever has this idea has not looked much at the life of Christ and grace. God clearly gives choices and lets people have freedom to choose to follow him or not. However, it is only through obedience, which ultimately only comes through grace and relationship with Him, that one finds freedom. If one thinks that God is controlling them, they likely have a very poor grasp of God's love for them or the joy of being in relationship with Him. Or they might think that what they are hearing is God is really only a deceiving spirit masquerading as God (2 Cor. 11:14). Regardless, when one has a healthy concept of God they will realize that the Holy Spirit works through empowerment, not through control and manipulation. God just created a world that is obedience friendly, and disobedience unfriendly in how one reaps what they sow.